(I am posting this, but this is a result of a multi-day meeting with all active Moderators and Proc - I am posting this on their behalf - Reinier)

- from MODERATORS and OWNER

Recently, there have been some issues regarding using outside sources in chops (creations) here at PSC. The reality is, almost everyone here has at one time "borrowed" images from the internet. In fact, in recent years, many members have made it a habit to list EXTERNAL sources on their images. This, in a small way, acknowledges our usage of other people's work in the creation of our own images. Some members do not bother giving these details, and there will probably always be an ongoing discussion if this is right or wrong.

The reality is: if you don't have written permission from the other artist/photographer/graphic designer/techDweeb/etc. then you SHOULDN'T be using it.
And, if we adhere to that reality, this website could quickly grind to a halt.

So here are some GUIDELINES that we hope you will all seriously consider: If you choose to go the "disclose source material" route, be IMPECCABLE with it. This is important from a "copyright" point as well as a moral artistic point. Don't pretend you've done something cool that SOMEONE ELSE has put their own creativity into. GIVE THEM CREDIT, or at least don't put that credit upon yourself.

PRETENDING THAT YOU'VE CREATED SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVEN'T WILL GET YOU BANNED ON THIS SITE. Please note: we are serious about this.

If you are in doubt about what you are using, spend some time going through your own files of personal and family photos and find something you can use. Or do like many of us do here, grab a camera and go shoot what you need.

Thanks for your consideration and we trust that you'll all get the spirit behind this message!

Your PSC MODs

Please note that we REALLY need to keep this thread on topic, so (and this is weird for ME to request ) please keep this particular thread ON TOPIC or I'll be deleting your post. - reinier

Does this rule apply to the contests only or to ANY image posted on this site? (as in chops posted in jest in the forum.)

Finally, what took you so long!

And with my own recent jawdropping stupidity on the fishbowl contest in mind, let me know when I can show my face around here again.... - I am still very glad that somebody discovered it during the contest open time, so I could still do something about it.

I know what you mean. I'm thinking that forum postings don't take credit for creating something and are usually posted as an example of to make a point, humour, etc. whereas our entries we take credit.

You saying I'm not CREATING something when I'm posting in the forum?
Have you lost your MIND man!!!

Good question: I'd not worry about it in the forums. Again, TECHNICALLY it is a no-no to use someone else's work without permission, but across the board/www forums seem to have been left alone by "legal" eagles of image owners. So don't sweat the forums.

We are talking about CONTEST ENTRIES and IMAGE BITS we use to create them.



EXACTLY.

As to the question, years ago and if anyone finds it.... please don't return it.

I was thinking legally. I also wondering is this a preventive measure or the shite hit the rotary occilator already.

Where's the "like" button?
(Yes, I know this isn't Facebook. )

I miss being more active here. I still lurk (nearly) every day. The contests have had many many issues which have developed or become more apparent to me over the years, which is why I have rarely even BROWSED the contest entries in a very long time. These guidelines and set consequences for failing to follow them are definitely a step in the right direction toward resolving some of the issues. Thank you.

SeamusMan: There are LEGAL considerations in our request, and there are MORAL (full disclosure) considerations in our request.

The site is not now, nor has been (yet), under legal attack.

Just one question, if it is copy right laws then you will need to remember that laws differ from country to country...if it is just plain taking credit for otherws work then you will need to be a little more specific.

Just sayin

My personal 2¢ : I have found this obsession that MANY members here have gotten into regarding "pure source work" and "no outside source" and "Only spoon used as outside source" AND THE DESIRE TO LIST AND EXPLAIN their work very soul leeching. (again, MY opinion here) Part of the reason I dislike this route is that we JUST DON'T ENJOY THE CHOP anymore. We are all looking to analyze it and if, heaven forbid, someone doesn't list something properly, jump down the choppers throat - man that is NOT the fun place we old-timers help build years ago. It was about SILLY FUN WHIMSICAL THOUGHT-PROVOKING image manipulation that DIDN'T take a person all day to create. It was FOR OUR OWN AMUSEMENT and our fellow choppers amusement. We "borrowed" images all over the place and no one (inside the site or OUTSIDE the site) gave a rat's ass. Because IT WASN'T SERIOUS.

Now, with this desire to CREDIT THINGS SO PRECISELY, we now face the other side of that coin which is WE NEED TO CREDIT THINGS PRECIELY.

The ARTISTIC "seriousness" on this site is WAY OUT OF HAND, in my books, from what this site was originally intended. Yes, there is still learning going on here, but it is the heavy handed SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS training - a style of training I do not agree with.

And- this site is CURRENTLY the site that we've ALL built. I do miss the old ways, but am doing my best to fit in with the new ways. Which, in my case, is to hardly ever chop... but I do my best to help out around here in spite of myself!

Okay - that is my personal bit regarding THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD.

Can someone then give an explanation of "fair usage"? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, here, but I have heard the term and wonder how it applies.

Not a smart assed query at all, Mr. Pal

BUT: It is a BIG topic and really beyond my (and I think its safe to say any of the other MODs here - speak up you scurvy lot if you do know FACTS) scope. But if you really wanna know, you can start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

In a nutshell, it is murky legal guidlines regarding how much of someone else's creative works you can use in your own creative works WiTHOUT needing to get permission from original creator.

But, as I said, this is stuff WAY beyond my brainPower at 6am in the morning...


DON'T FORGET KIDS: YOU CAN ALWAYS EMAIL THE OWNER OF THE IMAGE YOU WANT TO USE AND ASK THEM! My experience is they rarely say "no" (after you explain what a fun and relaxed site this is )

Okay, I updated my authors title in the Red Chevelle comp. Am I inline? I never contacted the dude, but did read the use of his photos. http://www.seriouswheels.com/1960-1969/1967-Chevrolet-Corvette-Coupe-Red-Custom-FA.htm

getting more and more like all the other sites me thinks...to many rules and to much bullshit...I agree with ya reindude I to miss the way it was...but still the way it is cause its PSC