Whenever the subject about voting comes up in here I always think of one website that does pretty well and keeps things relitvley fair.

Helium.com

It is a writing web site but with relitvley the same idea. U write about a subject and submit it. Voters then go through the voting process where 2 articles (in this case images) are shown side by side. U vote on which one is better.the better one moves up and So it ultimitlly becomes like a pyramid until the end of voting and u have a winner second place third place and so on. Ppl can choose to revise in which case both articles (images) are placed side by side. The voter doesn't know who is who and they don't know which one is revised. Ppl can still comment and offer advice but allows more accuate voting.

Not saying this is the way to go but like I said its what I always think about when this subject comes up.

And I'm not trying to spam or ne thing. In fact if ur not a member or haven't written an article u won't be able to see exactly how it looks but hopefully with the description it gives u a relitivley good idea about how it works. Or at least a general idea of something that could be done.

Since I started this mess I will continue.... By no means did I ever attempt to deter anyone form learning on this site, this was never my intention!!!! if you look at some of my earlier posts, you can see that I was a new-B at one time myself!!! I have always loved to come to this site to see what others can do and then test my own skills! I love that the site is bringing in new artists and you have every right to be here as everyone that has come before you...... This is certainly not the first time I have posted a forum of this type, and quite frankly it was probably just because I was having a bad day!!! I myself do not have a lot of time to post anymore.... sad but true....well mostly sad to me! I guess what gets me the most is that every post that I have done with in the last year, I have put my heart n sole and hours into or I dont post it at all! and I dont want to feel that I was beaten by someone who spent twenty mins on there chop.... thats it!

I never spend more than 20 minutes on a chop, I learned that the more time you spend, the less votes you get, I didn't make the rules, it's just a fact of life around here, so start doing some 15-20 minute chops, you'll feel better when you lose...

wise

make everyday a 10 dollar contest for the winner. Make it anonymus, but with comments and votes visible.

this wouldn't work... I know this cause I'm one of these talented people you guys want back, and I tell you... I wouldn't put all my effort everyday for 10 bucks, although I feel incentivated by 50 a week... when the prizes were cut I told people I'd chop back if the prizes come back...they did come back, and I'm chopping when I can, for the tuesdays contests... well, except when someone complains of cheating...

Can you imagine what it would give if 50 dollars were handed EVERY DAY to the winner of a anon contest?
Ofoucrse the siteowner needs a big income in order to do that kind of prices (350 dollars a week), but I think it takes little time before the site grows due advantage memberships.

I'm sure that if there were 50 dollars to win every day, this site would become a PS-guru magnet in a few weeks.
And THEN it gets interesting and tough.

does anyone has any clue how many psc members advantage there are?

I think the primary problem with the voting system is twofold.
First you have a collection of entries automatically displayed as soon as the comp opens. Many people vote that very morning and get the ball rolling.
Lets say ten people vote right off the bat. They can't take it back and whoever receives these early votes has an instant advantage.
Now the rest of the chops start coming in. If someone has a superior chop to what you voted for earlier, you can never do anything to help move that chop up in the ranks. You can vote for it, but all you've really done is say, that in your opinion the chop is EQUAL, according to your own voting.
Or what if you look closer at several chops and decide you voted prematurely? Too bad. Your vote is cast.
The only way I see to avoid this is for ALL chops to come in at once or leave the comp open for three days... then close new entries and add two more days, or whatever, for the voting process.
There is obviously something unfair about the current process. And I'm not whining for myself or where I have placed in the past.
It's just obvious for anyone to see if they look at the the system for two minutes.

For those just tuning in:
What's "top chop" these days wouldn't have even garnered 10 votes a few years back.
The "more talented" choppers from the past 5 years rarely post.
This thread gets started again every few months and the same dead horse gets his ass kicked for the 124th time.
People vote for crap entries blah blah blah...wait...if people submit crap entries then what else are they supposed to vote for?
[/dp]

Just wanted to chime in here as I've been member here for a while, but rarely talk in the forums. This topic really piqued my interest. I first came here to explore the wonderful world of competitive chopping and at the time there would be 50+ entries per contest with no real hope of winning. I didn't care though, I watched and learned and posted my sub-par to mediocre chops. What kept me coming back was the invaluable advice that was given to me by the "super choppers" when they voted or left comments. I took a hiatus from this site for a couple of years and have recently come back. Over that time I was able to hone my skills because I was working as a graphic designer and luckily I got to use photoshop extensively. Now my chops are much better and I've started creating top entries. Part of the reason is because of the lack of "super choppers" here, but I also like to think that I've really stepped up my game. I can definitely understand the frustration of losing to what you may feel is an inferior chop, I've had numerous entries that I felt should have placed first or at least higher than they did. Check my portfolio and compare a few of the entries. I may feel slighted or not part of the "clique", but when it's all said and done it's the will of the voters and I accept that and move on. Don't just chop to win, chop because you love doing it. That's the reason you signed up in the first place isn't it?

My beef isn't with any of the newbies at PSC, but it's with a couple of oldies, who've unfortunately bothered to post their bullshit via this thread!

Some of you door knobs really think you're shit-hot, don't you? Yes, YOU know who YOU are. I'm talking to YOU. I've looked at your profiles/chops and noticed when YOU actually joined PSC. I gotta tell ya - after spending that much time here and chopping - your work ain't s***! After using PS or hanging out at this site for that long, your work should be better, MUCH, MUCH better. It's not shit-hot, FAR, FAR from it, actually.

I spent approx two months, chopping at PSC, and the very max time on any of my chops/gifs was 1hr 30m. The average being 40-50 mins. I always chopped on the fly and created the first thing that came-to-mind. Even then, on the whole, my stuff was pretty okay. Especially for a newbie. If I even bothered to spend a few more hours on a chop, then I could easily kick your old-timing asses. That's only after a couple of months @ PSC. BUT - if I'd been here a few years, like a couple of YOU, then I'd be more than capable of burying YOU into the f****** ground. Quite literally. No questions asked.

I'm just glad that I decided to quit chopping at PSC. It was due to: tactical voting, investigative oldies, and a slew of shit source imagery. All I do now is - chop everyday, via my OWN rules; via my OWN creativity; via my OWN self. And it frickin rules.

Remember - Some of the newbies, that some of you oldies are looking down on today, will be capable of PSCing on you, in the near future. And it won't take them that long.

This place is more about territory than actual skill or chopping. And you're very welcome to it. Congrats.

Over and Out.

I will just copy-paste a discussion i just sent to johndownunder who is fairly new chopper overhere, but a talented art critic (as i think Patre was..rip)... :i think it will fit into the topic u discussed people.
:

" ey John

well i just stumbled upon the comment u made on a recent win...(the sheeps)
and i must say that as i agreed completly with ur point of view, i just said "John said..." ; which is , in a way,a real attempt to say to the contestant his work as good and that maybe he didn t know he just found the perfect crop for a picture like this too, expetced...maybe he is a photographer or a painter because of this... well.... .... ... my point is : everybody on this(these) site(s) seem kinda ashamed to express their inner artist. It is me fight since the beginning in january 2006 i posted some stuff "nobody is able to judge" just becoz its different.... Then i learnt their lessons... and it served my goals since i wanted to "chop".
If you take Deviantart for example. There are just 2 main directions that are rewarded with comments and stuff : the anime drawings and a dark sthg comin out of ...darkness.... macabre catergory that represents a visual extension of what post BowieThenCure-bands did in music...PSC, online, doesnt promote art, it promotes competion and advertising style of chopping even humorous... i have NOTHING against these as i respect every kinda of mediums well expressed, but i can t stand that nothing happens after..... There is a tool in PS calledt Pen Tool, this is just marvellous but more than people can think. At some times some people like the young fellow Mason(idontremeberthenumbersorry) that posted some gradient shaped pictures - there s a tutorial i hope on this site - . he said before : " am i able to do it ? " ... well u guessed... he just did it! several chops , time to time, and the guy found his way to votes ! well... to conclude...( not that i want to hahaha...) he managed to get some pscore, to please people, to challenge people, to challenge his mind... it wqs clean chopping but in gradient' illustrative way.
Adobe Photoshop allows eevrything, its what i think. Im not into videos even if i dream about a movie one day, so i have to stick to pictures, images whatever u call it. This site and the software alltogether brought me some concrete pictures for my desperatly and dangerously creative fucking mind....and i will always thank them for this... i personally always feel trapped in a certain routine... be aware that every single second that passes is a entirely new world..... then u can find sthg NEW !!!! Yeah!
heu...ahem... sorry mate ive been talking......jajaajaja
and maybe u will find it kinda ... unpersonal.... i just figured at the end that i could post in in the forum this 'kin message...just for the posterity...lol.

ANyway my friend, be well,
talkk u later

o fuk... i posted ... about this.

wht i meant....
..forget it... i meant nothing u all bunch of sissies waiting for a new sthg happen... be ALL AHSAMED pwahahahah

and yeah... ill be drunk jsuyt for tonite since i quit one month ago.... just say YEAH NAIKO...will be ok.