Wow bold ass statement and a little conceited in my opinion but your entitled to it.

Winning here has meant very little to me and "Winger8" I have won my fair share of contests trust me. Just becasue you believe winning is every thing thats great but forcing your win at all cost attitude on people aint going to help.

Just tone down your attacts on the people here like myself, I dont vote any more or compete, so does that mean I give up the right to come here, shit mate I dont even go into chat. I enjoy, yes enjoy looking at the art work and seeing what ideas people come up with for the dailies. Reading the forum stuff and some times using the binford 5000.

We all come here for different reasons at least respect that, and not be so agressive it will do nothing but get yopu more fustrated.

(PS the Winger* thing is just a little shit stirring on my part so dont take it to seriously )

You know whats funny flaming fleshlight? I was just thinking, if people dont care about winning why would they complain about your new voting system. Not caring is not caring right? Kind of of an oxymoron. I actually like your idea man, I just dont see management doing anything about it. Personally I like winning and all that, especially if I spent a lot of time on something.

Its not really 'winning' that should be important though Ryan. It's the learning and the growing.... To achieve that win.
Yes, its called Contest. Not Hangout I get that.
Yes, I too get really upset when I see certain voting trends.

I guess I just don't see your point about great work being ignored for shitter work.
I haven't seen it that blatant. When I first came I was getting 3 or 4 votes a contest.
My first entry here. I thought it was amazing. Only a 4 threw me a bone.
http://photoshopcontest.com/view-entry/83289/best-in-show.html

What I'm getting at is:
Most people have to work their way up the ladder. I don't know whats with this new generation thinking they can just step right into management positions. Why... back in my day you started in the mail room and worked your way up to the corner office. They didn't just hand you the keys.
case in point... my second entry I got 15 votes
http://photoshopcontest.com/view-entry/83351/meteor-shower.html
vs Clafs 68 in that same contest
http://photoshopcontest.com/view-entry/83326/votes.html

as for winning... of course winning is important... BUT its a goal... not a right. Like I said before... You've gotta sway the people to vote for you. I'm not talking about vote whoring. I'm talking about adding that little extra to your chop to put it over the top.
It took like 90 entries before I got my very first win. Did I quit? hell no.

21 entries into my time here I started figuring it out. this one landed me 6th place out of 79 entries!
http://photoshopcontest.com/view-entry/84477/crossing-the-delaware.html

67 entries till I hit 3rd
http://photoshopcontest.com/view-entry/87581/bait.html
out of 98 entries!

Eventually it all comes together and you start doing better. You're still not going to win all the time...
BUT after tons of help and advice you start getting better and you can have ones like these:
http://photoshopcontest.com/view-entry/95966/player-xlii.html

http://photoshopcontest.com/view-entry/107122/gondork.html

hell this one only got me 2nd
http://photoshopcontest.com/view-entry/127265/40-days--40-nights.html

I still have huge clunkers... It is a process. It's not a sprint... its a marathon.

Point is: I worked harder and harder to get where I am today. Not many know this, when I first started, I knew shit about PS. (and I still have a ton to learn) I knew how to color correct and clone stamp. That was it. But because I was patient, and I asked questions from people like ReyRey, TBC, Rashdog, thbeghin, billtvshow, vunt van pumununt (I miss that guy) and yes even Marco... I learned this shit, I paid my dues... I even got a promotion at work... THAT my friend is winning.

I think what gets new people in trouble is our willingness to throw them the old 'welcome to the site' vote and then they think OMG my work is the best! I'm going to slay every contest here. Then their next entry comes out... and its a dud and boring, and they get very few votes for it. And they leave cause they think they're being ignored. With the new kids attitude, I should have left after my third contest! I got zero votes for this
http://photoshopcontest.com/view-entry/83619/flushed.html

Am I up for changes? meh. yes and no. I'm certainly up for management changes. I still say us talking about this is pointless... Because management isn't asking for our opinions. I wish they would... But alas.

Here you go, Cringer.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Ultimately, it would be nice if the voting itself was some sort of feedback. I know it's not as quick and easy, but a simple rubric wouldn't be that bad. Freaking News does it and it doesn't really take that long. Your score tells you what people think about your work. I'm not leaving here, so please refrain from the "Well, go back then" knee-jerk reaction. I like it here- I'm just adding to this discussion about the voting system.

Right now, if an entry flounders and stalls, you have no idea why. I said earlier that art is visual communication, and if your work sits at the bottom or is stuck in the middle, it would be beneficial to know why at least. Otherwise, you can only guess what would capture the collective attention of the audience. It does seem a little too subjective now.

Back to Cringer's original proposal. Since we are dealing with "art" here, I will say that juried exhibitions in the real world are judged by established and respected artists. Some opinions do carry more weight than others.

When we do classroom critiques at school, I don't allow the students to simply say "I like it." They have to give at least one reason why. When I grade their projects, I use a rubric that evaluates criteria, craftsmanship, aesthetic, and effort/creativity. Right now our voting system is a "like" button system.

I know nothing will probably change, but I can't help but always think of ways to tweak something I enjoy being a part of.

Along with Cringer and a few others, I like you TML. you're one of my favorite noobs here. I hope you do stay a long time.
You guys have spirit... yes you do! And I agree. This place could use more of your enthusiasm.

My only worry is what to do when you don't like something. I grew up with the saying... If you don't have anything nice to say...

Not everyone likes to hear why their 'baby' isn't 'special'. I'm certainly willing to help, but not everyone wants to hear what I've got to say.

Don't know how many entries I look at and go " " and move on to the next one in fear of upsetting the artist with a bad comment...

Maybe we as artists need to put in our authors notes:

I like it!

Thanks, Shaman. I will be sure to do that. I have thick skin built up over the years through my BFA and MFA work, and I have appreciated the criticism and suggestions I have received here. I just want to get better and more efficient.

]:[ (grim determination Emoticon not available)

Yes? I'm calling about the super fun friends? Do you have any specials?

With your membership you receive a Super Fun Friends Hug Mug.

that one comes with a curse...

or you can try our happy super fun friends meal

But the happy super fun friends meal contains Potassium Benzoate.

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Order up!