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Tawiskaro
Location: New York
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 Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:57 pm Reply with quote
BigGame3113 wrote: Tawiskaro wrote: In the money contests, I will not vote if I have an entry. With so few participants it is suicidal...
Ted, I wouldn't say it's suicidal... All the prize contests that I've lost have not been because I gave the difference vote to the winner, and in all the prize contests that I've won, I've cast several votes.
Seth,
You have been lucky. The last prize contest I won, I won because I didn't vote. Had I voted for the two or three deserving chops, I would have lost. Had I voted only for what I thought was the best chop, I would have lost. The vote counts are simply too low. What skews the voting further is the parsimonious voter--the guy who will cast only a single vote, even when it's a coin toss. The parsimonious voter behaves differently in non-prize contests. With fifty bucks on the line, he wants to be a king maker, I guess.
If and when the numbers go up, I'll rethink my views on this.
--twk
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kinetic_be
Location: Belgium
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Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:34 pm Reply with quote
I understand and partly agree with not voting in a prizecontest if you participated, but if everyone who would participate withdraw from voting for fellow contestants, we'd have almost no votes at all at the moment.
Anyway, I expect the numbers will go up again anytime soon. Seen some old faces lately and new members 
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BigGame3113
Location: Ohio, USA
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Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:38 pm Reply with quote
Tawiskaro wrote: BigGame3113 wrote: Tawiskaro wrote: In the money contests, I will not vote if I have an entry. With so few participants it is suicidal...
Ted, I wouldn't say it's suicidal... All the prize contests that I've lost have not been because I gave the difference vote to the winner, and in all the prize contests that I've won, I've cast several votes.
Seth,
You have been lucky. The last prize contest I won, I won because I didn't vote. Had I voted for the two or three deserving chops, I would have lost. Had I voted only for what I thought was the best chop, I would have lost. The vote counts are simply too low. What skews the voting further is the parsimonious voter--the guy who will cast only a single vote, even when it's a coin toss. The parsimonious voter behaves differently in non-prize contests. With fifty bucks on the line, he wants to be a king maker, I guess.
If and when the numbers go up, I'll rethink my views on this.
--twk
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Lucky?? LUCKY?!?! You just jealous  my point is, its not a fair and square win if you win only because you held back your vote from the would-be winner.
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<senzotaku>
Location: Netherlands
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:58 am Reply with quote
Tawiskaro wrote: <senzotaku> wrote:
I find myself sometimes voting based on quality/amount of all contest entries in general. For instance, giving all four participants in a contest a vote, because all those entries have acceptable quality. I mean when there're no clear shiners and/or 'failures' compared to all the rest. Mostly (on average) I just vote a third/second of all members involved.
Candron has a point, when someone participates in a contest, but doesn't vote in the same contest. It's unconcerned, but understandable in a way. When I'm participating - with other entries with equal quality or maybe even better (according to me) - it's sometimes against all knowledge; giving 'opponents' votes while I'm also 'competing' in the same contest. By example it's also not a common rule in sports or games. But I admit right away, the other side is somewhat slackness. Voting others in H2H on PSC is very usual, wishing each other good luck. Nothing wrong with kindness of course, while maybe (strictly spoken) you would't give a vote right away. Voting isn't an obligation of course.
But nowadays, I guess we 'should' give entries somehow more support; because in comparison with the old days the quantity combined with quality is way lesser. Back than, 25 votes was a little and really a consideration with 60-80 entries for each day. Realizing the difference between those periods is maybe worth considering for giving more support.
Luxwiz is also right about the voting for the sake of voting. Mindless voting without skill... would result into a crapshoot, or something like that. Like poker tournaments I played myself. I had a friend once and he only played for the action, very amusing and mostly he lost and smiled about it. His dedication actually kept the game going for that matter. Only without the striving and dexterity to win, he needed luck most of the time.
Poker and PSC are both comparable in a way, I guess. Because both have working and competing, with leisure and enjoyment in the participating. In the meanwhile... I could made an entry instead of typing a whole story. Anyway, my plan is getting advantage very soon.
And for the sake of once and again; I will STFUAC right about now...
An interesting perspective.
In the money contests, I will not vote if I have an entry. With so few participants it is suicidal, though I made a recent exception. In money contests in which I have no entry, I try to vote for the best one or two--if the quality is close. In daily contests, I will vote to encourage newbies, but not at the expense of a clear winner--if I can help it. I will refrain from voting for a lame entry by someone I know to be capable of better. This is not a hard and fast rule. I know that some very capable choppers rush an entry just to ensure the contest has an entry. I have done this myself on occasion.
I am encouraged to see a few old faces returning. I am also encouraged to see some new choppers with talent and enthusiasm. This place might actually become fun again.
Thanks for typing "a whole story." .
Also thanks! You've a reasonable viewpoint on appreciation.
Dedicators and averages is also a factor I guess, besides newcomers and the quantity-quality of contests.
After all, voting is based upon individual points of views, overall very acceptable.
Except when I'm losing... I mean, voters have reasons and opinions, plus the course of events...
Today, I voted and numbred the top 5 (from my perspective) in the contest that expires today... 
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<senzotaku>
Location: Netherlands
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:15 pm Reply with quote
Predicted the top 5! Right place and order, for one entry, so I was wrong about the rest... 
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Tawiskaro
Location: New York
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:13 pm Reply with quote
BigGame3113 wrote:
Lucky?? LUCKY?!?! You just jealous my point is, its not a fair and square win if you win only because you held back your vote from the would-be winner.
Of course it is fair and square. I neglected to mention that in my last win (the win in which I didn't vote) the guy who would have won had I voted for his chop cast only a single vote--for an inferior entry. I think he did that by mistake. Maybe he just wanted to be able to say he voted. Who knows?
I am not the only one who withholds votes. If the others do it for the reason I do it, I can't complain.
I sometimes wonder if there are those who withhold votes for a different reason. They see a clearly superior chop and decide not to vote for it because they think it could only have been created by chopper A. Perhaps chopper B. In either case, the vote is withheld because chopper A or B needs to be knocked down a peg. I can't prove this, of course, but I'm confident it happens.
Ah, voting.
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vicspa
Location: Bethlehem,PA
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:32 pm Reply with quote
Tawiskaro wrote: BigGame3113 wrote:
Lucky?? LUCKY?!?! You just jealous my point is, its not a fair and square win if you win only because you held back your vote from the would-be winner.
Of course it is fair and square. I neglected to mention that in my last win (the win in which I didn't vote) the guy who would have won had I voted for his chop cast only a single vote--for an inferior entry. I think he did that by mistake. Maybe he just wanted to be able to say he voted. Who knows?
I am not the only one who withholds votes. If the others do it for the reason I do it, I can't complain.
I sometimes wonder if there are those who withhold votes for a different reason. They see a clearly superior chop and decide not to vote for it because they think it could only have been created by chopper A. Perhaps chopper B. In either case, the vote is withheld because chopper A or B needs to be knocked down a peg. I can't prove this, of course, but I'm confident it happens.
Ah, voting.
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I also lost the prize contest a couple of times because I voted for the other guy/girl, but he/she didn't vote for me, so I stopped voting, ...$50 better in my pocket than his/hers. I have since changed my mind and do vote, which is bad/good for me.
The parsimonious voter, that you refer to, I agree with what you say about him, but I rather just call him a shithead.
Ah, voting.
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vicspa
Location: Bethlehem,PA
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:37 pm Reply with quote
Maybe it's time to take a break from all of this!
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Tawiskaro
Location: New York
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:47 pm Reply with quote
vicspa wrote: The parsimonious voter, that you refer to, I agree with what you say about him, but I rather just call him a shithead.
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BigGame3113
Location: Ohio, USA
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:33 pm Reply with quote
Tawi and Vic, all I hear from you guys is "blah blah blah I didn't win blah blah I'm gonna stop voting so I can win."  lol but no I see your points.
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Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:38 am Reply with quote
it is difficult to be a participant and juror at the same time.
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BigGame3113
Location: Ohio, USA
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Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:31 am Reply with quote
candron wrote: it is difficult to be a participant and juror at the same time.
But technically, not really. All you gotta do is vote honestly as if you did not enter the contest. If everyone that participates in a contest honestly voted for the chops they feel they should vote for, then the winner would win because he had the best chop. Not because he held back his vote from someone who might have beaten him.
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Luxwiz
Location: Almuñecar.
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Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:22 am Reply with quote
BigGame3113 wrote: candron wrote: it is difficult to be a participant and juror at the same time.
But technically, not really. All you gotta do is vote honestly as if you did not enter the contest. If everyone that participates in a contest honestly voted for the chops they feel they should vote for, then the winner would win because he had the best chop. Not because he held back his vote from someone who might have beaten him.
Well said and I agree wholeheartedly... however this only holds true,as you stated,if everyone voted within the framework of this criteria,as soon as just one voting participant"holds back",this beautifully honest and just intrinsic ideal,breaks down and gives way to apparently false resolutions due to strategic manipulation... to complicate matters,there are other vague areas which create discrepancies in anything dealing with judging "ART".One being the subjective aspects of artistic appreciation 
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Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:42 am Reply with quote
BigGame3113 wrote: candron wrote: it is difficult to be a participant and juror at the same time.
But technically, not really. All you gotta do is vote honestly as if you did not enter the contest. If everyone that participates in a contest honestly voted for the chops they feel they should vote for, then the winner would win because he had the best chop. Not because he held back his vote from someone who might have beaten him. I meant to say, for some its difficult to participate and Judge at the same time, Not for me, look at my votings in a price or other comp. A good entrie deserve a vote.
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