If some shameless jackass was using my site to recruit members to his own site, which was a clone of mine that was created by stealing my code, I'd delete his account, too. Being as I'm not stupid.

Do what you need to do, PSC Admins.

It is the exact duplicate of JMH's site. I got the PM from Nikon also. I don't think he even bothered to change any of the text!

Gort: how do you know Nikon (lostcode) is Holly? Just curious. (I want to know how to cover all my other aliases )

i got an invite from nikon also, infact i joined the other site, but then i realised the error of my ways, this site is far superior, and i am now trying to work out how to quit the other site, dont really know why i joined, ha ha, didnt realise at first because link took me to login screen that it was a blatent rip off of PSC. that isnt big and it certainly aint clever. PSC forever people its the only way to fly.

sage....he said so in his PM where he invited me to join the other site. When he went from 'lostcode' to 'holly 9000' we started a dialog about chopping. He asked about some stuff and I was happy to give my opinion and/or help. Perhaps that's why he revealed that Nikon was him.

Ok, I'm back on PSC now.

So I suppose that means I'm NOT one of the "good choppers" then...

*"Damn right!" - chorus of everyone else*

Hum, considered like this, Cynn, I understand what you are saying. I was just shocked that the user known as Nikon got whipped from the face of the earth, all of a sudden, like he never existed. I thought, this is like "Revenge of the Site".

I am glad he contributed to PSC when he was there, I didn't know about the "stealing" of the code, though I have to admit that when I saw the other site, my PM reply was something like "this looks like some frustrated PSC user's work, this is a clone of PSC". I guess my feeling was right.

Now confusion is everywhere, I don't know which side to join, perhaps if someone could teach me how to keep my girlfriend alive forever... Seriously, I might even be getting Advantage in the near future, I want more freedom to create nice chops, without the time pressure.

Again, Cynn, sorry for the misunderstanding, maybe my analogy wasn't that great.

To me, it's not so much about the code, but about the concept. The same format is in place there with minor changes, it's still jmh's general site idea regardless of how much work went into the other site. I say, if you're gonna put your money somewhere, support the original and the person who really deserves it.

(Michel, I can teach you how to keep her alive bwahahaha, oh, um, disgregard that laugh )

Michel, I didn't mean to lash out at you-- I'm pretty disgusted by the theft and it shows. The fact that the site is an exact copy, right down to the copyright line, is just reprehensible.

In communist Russia, websites steal you!

i joined there....(i am free to do as i please) .... but that was before i heard anything about stealing or whatever.... i dont know much about codes and all that . i just like to do this shit and seen there was another spot to do it at and thought "WTF?" ...
again thats before i found out what a code was ... or that if it was copied it was a "bad" thing

so still not know anything about anything .........

if it comes to "picking sides" i pick here, without a doubt.... i joined the other site because a respected member of this site told me about it . i didnt know it was someone from here who started it untill after i joined when holly/nikon/lost (whoever) pm'd me on that site and told me who he was and that the site was his.

I'll speak openly now...

... when it first came up I was notified of its existence. I was also informed that it was probably NOT created with the knowledge of PSC owner JMH. I immediately posted a "parody" image of their page title banner. In that post I used the words "Rip Off". For the sake of not appearing childish a MOD wisely removed that image after letting me know that it had to go. All the facts were not in at that time - we didn't know what was actually happening.

Now the facts are coming in. They DID NOT have permission to duplicate the site. They DID actively attempt to lure members away from this site. They DID NOT let the owner of this site know they were doing this. They DID copy the PSC site in almost every manner (even down to the design blocking), with only minor changes to a word here or there,

So - RIP OFF. I stand by that phrase now. I won't support artistic and intellectual theft in this case. I'll not be supporting the other site in any way. Of course, as with most things on this site, everyone is free to do as they wish - but I feel that you should have all the facts (if possible) before you make your choices in life. So there's a fact: the other site is NOT authorized, and was created in spite of this site.

Part 2:

This might be a wake up call for here (although things are pretty normal around here, if you look at things over the last year or so) and we should pay attention to it.

Nikon Holly / Ronni are not EVIL people. They were frustrated with the going ons around PSC, and though I totally don't agree with their response, I do get that they were frustrated with this site enough to become Rogue Criminals themselves.

This site is NOT AN EASY THING TO KEEP ALIVE. If you are relatively new here, you may not think about that fact much. It takes time and effort from the MODS (love them or hate them, they spend time lurking here mostly for our benefit), the owner needs to keep those source images set up and the site maintained on good servers - you don't run a busy site like this on a Pentium II !!
AND AND AND it is almost impossible to keep everyone happy. I myself have had some huge pissUPS with this site in the past. I've whined and complained with the best of them. But along the way I decided to do my best to take responsability for my own happiness here. I act like I act and I remain fairly true to my own heart in all things here. JMH can kick me off any time, its HIS playground.

But in truth, he's made a GOOD playground and he mostly has it policed very well. The playground "monitors" are mostly good people who actually care that we all have fun and learn something here. They try to do that in a way that doesn't piss anyone off, and I would imagine the MOD job is NOT as easy and POWER-MONGERING as most might think it is.

So - I can almost guarrentee that eveyone who joins here, and participates at almost any level, will at some time feel THIS ISN'T FAIR, I DON'T GET MY WAY, SO and SO IS AN IDIOT, NO ONE APPRECIATES MY ARTISTIC GODLINESS, etc. It has been that way here long before I showed up a year and a 1/2 ago. It happens in any artistic/creative venue that I've seen. Its part of the territory. A person can't really do much about that in life.

BUT BUT BUT a person can decide to work it out for themselves... they can decide to work from within the structure that IS THERE NOW towards change. They can INSPIRE OTHERS to think differently instead of beating them over the head with new ideas. They CAN get on a soapbox - as I do here - and speak their heart without blaming others for the SUFFERING OF THE MASSES. And, yes... they can go build another site just like this one and see how many people show up to play in THEIR playground. Welcome to Life On Earth. In that aspect, I grudgingly respect NikonHolly for at least DOING something to look after himself. I DO NOT respect his artistic / design laziness (unless he did it that way to spite PSC - in which case he's a childish ass). Yet I'm gonna stay here and see what I can do to make this place even MORE fun and MORE open to educating people in the Way of THE CHOP. That is my truth and passion. I love this stuff - I love the overall creative openess here - I love watching the new peeps find their way in this quite SOLIDLY established creative community - and I love that you've taken time to read this whole rant of mine.

Just remember, at the end of the day, its what you DO you'll be judged by - NOT what you SAID you'd do. Do good things peeps!

------------end transmission-----------

no no Sage - manor. you know, like Bruce Wayne Manor!?

That other spelling is from crazed Francophonic Separatists! (Hmmmm... I see a tie-in here! )

Reinman: So - I can almost guarrentee that eveyone who joins here, and participates at almost any level, will at some time feel THIS ISN'T FAIR, I DON'T GET MY WAY, SO and SO IS AN IDIOT, NO ONE APPRECIATES MY ARTISTIC GODLINESS, etc. It has been that way here long before I showed up a year and a 1/2 ago. It happens in any artistic/creative venue that I've seen. Its part of the territory. A person can't really do much about that in life.

And even if you go to such a site and get more respect and decide to support it, that still doesn't make it right that you are supporting a site that is derived from the work of another person, at least imo. I guess that comes down to a moral decision.

Also, IF the guy had made a site that had an alternative method of how contests were run and voted on and a different site structure, in a way that it was original, fresh, and unique and IF the person opted to contact jmh and say, hey can we maybe set up links between our sites and share members (instead of underhandedly strip mining them with pm's) then I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. I think things were simply handled wrong. There were plenty of peaceful and advantageous alternatives.

Well said Reinman.

You speak wisely (sagely...) Mr. rein, on this manor.

There are some members from PSC who have joined the other site. Most are members I truly respect and will continue doing so. (Yes, st1n3r, you're on the respected list, too...

I believe they joined looking for another playground, with no ill-intent towards JMH. What they decide to do now is up to them....imo.